Prints Coming out all…Strange

New Home Forum Troubleshooting Prints Coming out all…Strange

This topic contains 32 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Jasoroony Jasoroony 14 hours, 24 minutes ago.

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  • #21014
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    I tried my MPCNC for the first time as a 3d printer. For some background info, I bought everything except the extruder on this site. I read the extruder tune up guide, and everything from the start seemed okay. The thermistor was set in, I even added thermal paste. The resistor was already centered in the block, and the bearing was spinning. When I tried to print, it looks okay at first but afterwards, I realized that the quality was pretty terrible.I am printing with Inland orange PLA at 230C

    There seems to be a ton of under extrusion, since I can see through the print at times, especially where theres a flat overfill. In general the part feels weaker than it should. Keep in mind I used the recommended settings for the print. I was printing one of the corner foot posts.

    Another issue was, the stepper for the extruder actually got so hot, I believe it shut off entirely. Mid way through the print, the extruding stopped but the rest kept going. The problem I have now is, the stepper got so hot, it warped the PLA printed tool mounter, so now I can shake the extruder with my hands 🙁 Better buy a new mount.

    Any suggestions on how to get these prints better? I tried changing the temp and had little success. I thought the recommended settings would go better, but I think my extruder is all off or something.

    #21045
    Profile photo of vicious1
    vicious1
    Keymaster

    Do the 100mm extrusion test and see if it is correct. So many thing that could be wrong but how far off it is or isn’t really narrows it down.

    #21487
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    I fixed nearly everything, as now I can print decent quality. The problem was the mk8 bearing, it was totally locked up. I also had too high of a current limit on the driver for the extruder stepper.

    The last issue I really have is the print accuracy. I can’t tell if it’s the emt I am using, but the edge of prints sometimes come out rough. It’s not my extruder, as I can sort of see and feel the jitter and little vibrations of the printer head. Any way to fix this in software or is it my rails? It’s not that bad but it’s something that could be improved.

    I also jb welded the part of the feet where the conduit is held in, and am using an extremely sturdy table.

    #21490
    Profile photo of Barry
    Barry
    Participant

    Make sure the top bearings aren’t riding on the welded seam of the tubes. They’re kinda rough.

    #21585
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    It seems to work okay for now, but the edges still seem to be a little unsmooth compared to the parts that I ordered from here. It isn’t too bad, but on prints with small circles, I can see and feel the slight jitter that results in somewhat junk quality. I can remedy this by slowing it down a litte, but it only makes minor improvement and that’s printing at 30mm/s which feels a little too slow in my opinion. It might be my rails but I checked and everything seems fine. Maybe it is tension bolts?

    #21587
    Profile photo of vicious1
    vicious1
    Keymaster

    Print pics would help. Machine size, electronics and hardware being used, lots of details gets a better response. In this case you really need pics as well.

    I print at 30mm/s on all my printers (not just mpcnc), 35mm/s max. If you want to go faster you will probably need to tune the acceleration and jerk settings in the firmware to match. z-axis length is going to be a huge factor here.

    #21589
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    Okay, here are some pictures

    View post on imgur.com

    View post on imgur.com

    I bought everything from here, except the extruder which I got on ebay. I tuned it up the way the tutorial said, and it seemed to actually be pretty good from the start, but the bearing wasen’t spinning. All that is fixed. The z axis has 6.5 inches of travel.

    I am running the recommended settings, .4mm nozzle. I tried going to .3 and changing the software. I got better prints(obviously), but the uneven texture was still there. But now that I look closer at the print, it seems as though it is software. The sample piece on the picture has rafts, and as you can see, some parts of the cylinder are way cleaner than others. The top and bottom look way cleaner than the middle.

    I want to print idealy at around 45mm/s. This printer is going to be making mostly structural parts, so I chose PLA cause it shrinks less. Dimensional accuracy is most important to me, so I am considering printing slower because it’s worth the tradeoff.

    #21590
    Profile photo of vicious1
    vicious1
    Keymaster

    Something isn’t right, with that print. I print inland pla at 213. Try that first.

    It could be your slicer, or something else but please lets only change one thing at a time.

    You should try some test prints first. I use the robox vase, printed as a spiral vase at 60% size as an extremely fast test print, once you get that looking good move on to real parts.

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:181089

    Getting settings right with a part that requires support is a bad idea.

    #21592
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    Okay, I printed at all the recommended settings, and here are the results for the vase.

    View post on imgur.com


    Looks pretty good to me, makes me believe either my machine hates printing anything else but slow, or that I have a slic3r problem. I notice small ripples in the smooth form, but thats from the rails for sure because they’re extremely consistent. The other piece I posted was completely messed up, like the extruder was laying the plastic all sloppy. I was printing at 215C first layer, 210C all other layers with orange PLA from Inland. My problem isn’t temperature because I tried every temp and certain parts always end up like the first one.

    #21598
    Profile photo of vicious1
    vicious1
    Keymaster

    So if you didn’t change anything else. You used the same settings and printed the vase, the only thing it doesn’t do is retract. That is a good setting to look into. I retract 1mm on the mk8 and only after more than 3mm of movement. retract speed is at 35mm/s.

    If that isn’t it it just probably comes down to how you are slicing it. parimeters, speeds, infil, overlap, ect. maybe travel speed try 60mm/s

    The vase looks pretty good so you know it isn’t the machine, extruder, or filament.

    #21599
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    Hmm…tried the same settings with the vase on the part, still the same result. i tried messing with the retraction, nothing. I am really confused now, it has to be software. When i watch it print, I can’t really tell what it is doing wrong. I feel the vibration a little more than usual, but it seems to be an issue on especially, the round part. Maybe it is my stl file…not sure. I tried the 3dbenchy boat test and it has that kind of sloppy look to it still. It’s where the outside surface looks rough and bubbley. Overextrusion? Not sure yet

    #21600
    Profile photo of vicious1
    vicious1
    Keymaster

    I wish I could help. I have two printers with wades extruders on them and they print like that on some parts (not that bad but similar). I can print the exact same parts with the exact same gcode on the mk8’s and it comes out perfect.

    I assumed it was retraction. I’m not sure now.

    #21604
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    It might still be, but as far as I tested it isn’t. Such a mystery. I still find it weird the vase printed fine but the RC Car piece I modeled isn’t. I tried testing all of the retraction settings and all gives the same result. The 3d benchy boat turned out okay, but had that same issue with certain areas. It has to be retraction cause the pieces that require it are the ones that turn out the worst. The only thing I changed that made it look a little better was the extrusion multiplier to .95 instead of 1. But that’s not really the proper fix.

    #21654
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    It occurs to me one of my bearings is not spinning on the rails. It is one of the bearings on the gantry. I wonder why this is? Maybe this is the issue? It is the bearing closest to where the rails meet on one side. All other bearings make contact and have enough friction to not spin, but this one is just free floating, regardless of the position of the gantry relative to the rest of the machine.

    Upon further inspection…it seems as though the rails themselves are flattening out and causing a loose fit…this is probably even worse. When I take the machine apart and isolate the gantry, i can wiggle the pipes around and feel the play between them. Depending on where I put my force, it causes the wipe to ride on 1 bearing vs the other. Is this normal at all? It feels like there’s too much play between the gantry bearings and my rails. I am using the correct rails, 3/4 inch emt. It just seems to be the worst on the flat sections.

    #21655
    Profile photo of JYount
    JYount
    Participant

    Was about to start a new thread until I saw yours, which I still may have to do. I just finished up my build and am seeing what I think is the same issue as you. I get this wavyness on all 4 sides.

    The difference though I am using the standard mega/ramps 1.4 stack. My electronics were salvaged from my Prusa I3 that was used to print all the parts. I reflashed with the firmware on this website. I believe the only thing I modified was the extruder E-steps.

    I was thinking it had something to do with the machine shaking, my build is 24×36 and 12 inches tall. I have tried adjusting the acceleration down in the firmware and have tried printing very slow but still get the same wavyness.

    #21658
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    Yeah my prints look like that too. No matter what part, there is a generally waviness and clear lines to the outside surface, but sometimes the rectangular infill is perfectly straight 45 degrees, so I got no idea. In general my build seems very unsmooth, even though it is nailed down and the outer rails feel very solid. I can’t wiggle them with my hands.

    #21659
    Profile photo of vicious1
    vicious1
    Keymaster

    Yyuont – yours is a bent z axis screw. It gets magnified the longer your axis. So at 12″ you are always going to have a hard time. So mke sure it is straight and in the coupler correctly.

    Kevin – I thought you were doing pretty good. Have you tried a different part other than the bad one and the vase? The parts that come out like that for me on the wades are the ones that have thin walls, like the pen mount. but they come out fine on the mk8. So if you did a 25% infill 20×20 cube does it print right. It really could be the part.

    #21660
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    Yeah I did the cube, and a lot of other prints. Most of the square geometry parts look okay, but the smooth ones like the vase do definitely have these waves you can see. I am guessing this these uneven layer are from just general vibration caused by the unevenness in the zinc coating. When I watch it print at 30mm/s, I can see and feel the bottom of z axis wiggling just a little too much. Yours seems much smoother in this video of yours with the old gantry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVKHlX3NaTA

    Especially on the circles or round parts, I can definitely see more ripple effect in my printer for sure. Your conduit seems a little more smooth then mine, maybe it is just the conduit who knows. Especially when I tested 50mm/s, the shake was really obvious, but that’s too fast for default acceleration for sure. When I tried printing a bottom corner piece, the inside had all these small ripples. Not as smooth as the ones that I used to build it. In terms of geometry accuracy though, its nearly spot on with the only complaint being the holes are generally printed to small.

    Another thing that concerns me is that one floating bearing, that has to be incorrect.

    #21666
    Profile photo of JYount
    JYount
    Participant

    As far as I can tell the z axis screw seems to be turning straight. I removed the rod and rethredded into the coupler. Also rolled it across a glass plate and didn’t notice any bending.

    #21754
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    Yeah me too, hmm. Upon looking at the forums it seems a lot of people are having this jittery problem in general. Makes me think it is software, or slicing. I printed the test piece on the slic3r recommended page, and it turned out pretty nice. No obvious errors, but still the lines across the print just like jyount. Then I printed a funnel shape and it looked all terrible again, except on the shaft of the piece where its just a straight cylinder. Man I am so lost, I will post more pictures if necessary.

    #21758
    Profile photo of JYount
    JYount
    Participant

    Im thinking it has to do with the machine vibrations. When I turned the acceleration/jerk and printed around 10mm/s it got fairly decent results, but a 20mm cube shouldn’t take over an hour to print. I’m going to try and print some brackets to put some diagonal pieces of conduit to prevent it from shaking as much. With mine being a bit taller I’m sure it amplifies the vibrations.

    #21759
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    For you it is the vibrations for sure. But I have another problem on top of it. It is the uneven finish on the most random of parts. I have no idea from what I have tested. At this point it could be anything for me, considering identical parts with same settings gave me vastly different results.

    #21760
    Profile photo of vicious1
    vicious1
    Keymaster

    I just pulled this print off earlier, prototype for the full sheet machine. Stock firmware, 22.5″x22.5″ footprint with a 6.5″ usable Z (just enough for the tool mount). Stainless steel, smooth.

    This was printed at 33mm/s with the mk8 extruder. The flat surface has a funky texture a little exaggerated in the pic. The knobby corners are from the slow accelerations, minimal ringing. The pattern in the picture looks like nasty ringing but that is the wrong direction, it is just how the light caught it. Meaning that texture is on all the flat sides but the sun exaggerates it. I have no idea what that texture is, I assumed it was from the galvanized coating, but this is a stainless build and it is still there.

    I am happy with this print, My printers do print better though. Before you go to far down the rabbit hole. For a longer z axis I’m not sure how much better it can get.

    Just to give you a baseline. When they print this good I stop tuning it.

    #21769
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    The ripples I am sort of okay with, but the bubble surface finish is still a complete mystery. I tried retensioning the belts, from loose to really tight. No difference, so I rebuilt it with retensioned xyz parts. All bearings touch but that also didn’t do anything to it. Playing around in the software seems to also be ineffective. I just don’t get how the same parts with the same settings turn out good, but then the next time not. It ruins my chances of isolating the problem with elimination, cause my results are all inconsistent.

    I think at this point I might have to just deal with it, it doesn’t make the printer unusable but it’s still an annoyance

    I get it is hard to help with issues like this, cause it doesn’t really make sense

    #21770
    Profile photo of vicious1
    vicious1
    Keymaster

    Is it just thin walled parts coming out bubbly?

    (sorry about the Theme weirdness I’m trying to fix things up in the slowest time of the day….working on a live site…what a idiot)

    #21772
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    I would say not, as I printed a cylinder just now that was only .5mm thin about 1cm tall and it looked flawless. I have gathered up all the clues in my head and they don’t match up. I feel like it could be anything causing the issue, the extruder, software, or the machine. It has happened on numerous parts of mine, but it is best summed up in the 2nd picture I posted with the support. I know physically, that the machine is capable of nice smooth pieces, but my ability to get them seems to vary a lot our of what seems to be complete randomness.

    View post on imgur.com

    These were printed a few hours ago. The one of the right is what I want. It is smooth, but still has the ripple effect which I am okay with for now. The left one is all messed up. The surface looks uneven with all sort of bubbles. These were printed on the same settings, which boggles my mind

    #21773
    Profile photo of vicious1
    vicious1
    Keymaster

    That is crazy. Nothing changed in between those prints?

    #21774
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    As far as I remember, yes. The software was for sure left the same. I am pretty much out of options, but with this luck I might as well keep printing and see what happens in the future.

    #21776
    Profile photo of Jasoroony
    Jasoroony
    Participant

    Some of my MPCNC part prints I did overnight came out much better than the ones I did during the day/evening when I had the central heating going. Do you have some fans you can use the blow on the printing part to cool it own faster?

    Edit: * down faster.

    #21778
    Profile photo of Kevin Lopez
    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    The room I print in is about 70f all the time, and I run the cooling fan that I got on eBay that I hooked up to D9

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