Need new drill ! help

New Home Forum Mostly Printed CNC – MPCNC Advice – MPCNC Need new drill ! help

This topic contains 43 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Jeffeb3 3 months, 4 weeks ago.

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  • #38058

    Omri
    Participant

    Hey guys, very happy to see all the great work here, im an artist based in amsterdam using an MPCNC for over a year now,
    A local engineer built it for me, and since then i cannot reach him anymore.

    – My drill got completley F***** up, and its time for me to get a new one, but I have no idea wich one i need, so thought you guys might have an advice for me.

    here is what i do know:
    ER-11 colette
    its attached to an external small box that controlls the speed with a nob.
    attacjes to machine with 4 screws from top of drill
    power comes from a box that transforms the current to 24V (i think)

    ill attach all photos i think are related, and i do not have a 3D printer so cant really get a new part made.

    thanks !!
    O

    #38070

    Jakob A
    Participant

    Not your standard setup 🙂

    Thats a brushless outrunner motor (often for RC airplanes/cars). The box on top of the stepper is just a servo controller, the little blue thing hanging under it is the brushless motor controller.

    What exactly is wrong with it ? Those motors are usually pretty tough

    #38094

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    Jakob is right on all accounts. Is there anything written on the motor itself? What about the brushless motor controller (the thing hanging between the top and the motor)?

    The mounting locations of those 4 screws are usually pretty consistent for a particular size. One place to get a lot of options would be hobbyking.com. https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multi-rotors-drones/motors.html?___store=en_us

    There are a lot of options there. Most of the parts are quite cheap, but if you order from Hong Kong, then they take a little while. Hopefully you can move that ER11 collet to the new motor. You’ll need to match the basic size, and the shaft size (so you can mount your collet on it) and if it was working OK so far, then you’ll want to match the kV too.

    Also, if you don’t mind, I’m sure many folks here would like to see some of your work. Brag about your exploits, please!

    #38258

    Omri
    Participant

    Hey ! thanks for your fast replies,
    The problem is the drill is getting super hot, as it, absolutly burned my finger while touching it.
    i drill all kind of strange materials sometimes and i think it got blocked with dust inside.
    im adding more photos that might help understand the setup and what i might need to replace,

    another problem i had is lots of whobbeling while drilling (not always), but if i tried to go deeper then 0.3mm per depth pess it would wobble crazy, i have a feeling those 4 screws holding the drill arent sitting well in the plastic and allow some movment that makes the wobble.. not sure

    and if you want to see some of my work using the mpcnc : https://www.instagram.com/omrbig/
    all drawings and ceramic pieces are made by the cnc

    best !
    o

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #38264

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    Whoa, your IG is awesome. Nice work, artist of many media!

    The motor should be really common, is there any numbers on it at all? What diameter is the shaft?

    #38269

    Omri
    Participant

    Hey Ryan! Thanks, unfortunately the drill is more secretive than any NSA agent, zero markings or text on it, I’m guessing I can measure the distance between the 4 bolts?
    What I’m mostly worried about is that the drill will work with that power box I use and the speed controller I have.

    More over, is there any better drill recommended for around 150$ that might be a bit stronger?
    Best,
    O

    #38270

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    The dewalt 660 that we all use is about $60 and way more powerful.

    #38271

    Omri
    Participant

    Is it gonna be rocket science to connect it to my rig? I guess I need to get a proper mount printed out? Does it have internal speed control or also external?
    Sorry for so many questions 😀

    #38273

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    You will need a new mount for anything you use unless you find a motor that fits your machine. Whoever made that for you did some very non standard things.

    Most people use a trim router, whatever is common in your country, and then it just plugs into the wall and you manually turn it on and off. I/we can help you get going but I see you aren’t from the US and I have no idea what might be available in your country. If you have a bit of tech savvy you can buy a 400W spindle with an er11 collet from ebay or aliexpress and those will be more powerful than what you have.

    #38282

    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    Curious, how long did that little motor last? Just by eye, it looks a little underpowered. Probably great for engraving, but serious milling looks out of the question. A one face mount that is plastic is not rigid enough. That’s why most if not all router/spindle mounts (like the dw660) have clamps at the top and bottom, not just a plate. Suppose with an outrunner motor like that though, that’s the only place you can hold it from since the outside spins.
    For the work you do, imo the 400w ebay spindle would be a better choice because it has the er11 collet. Only downside is it is a little more work to setup.
    Routers are great at just removing material reliably and cheap.

    #38284

    Omri
    Participant

    Hey Kevin!
    The drill lasted around 7 month, and I agree that single face mount was probably the reason for it being unstable. I did mill materials like plaster that probably helped in getting it stuck.

    I will mainly use it for cutting and engraving mdf, wood, plaster and maybe soft rubber. So no crazy hard materials.

    I’m afraid my knowledge of electronics is too poor for the 400w, I’m aiming at the 660 now or something equivalent. Once I or we figure out what drill will be the one, where shall I post to get help in understanding the mount system? I probably can get a friend to print it out for me
    Best
    O

    #38285

    Ryan
    Keymaster

    We could help you wire up the 400w, if it looks appealing to you, it really isn’t that bad and they have a speed control.

    The motor you have, have you cleaned it out? either it is just dirty or a bearing failed, the bearing is a bit harder to replace but you can clean it, they are actually waterproof. but it would be best to oil the bearings after a good cleaning. Or even more simple try some computer duster first to blow out any debris. They other part could be your speed control it could have died and they are only a few dollars to replace. It is all wild speculation though.

    #38287

    Omri
    Participant

    Hey Ryan!
    By the sound and spin of it on really think its damaged, plus as I said in the current setup I can only drill 0.2mm per depth press in mdf (that’s very little I assume?) , if I go deeper it all whobble and fail catastrophically, so I think after 7 month it’s time for an upgrade 😀

    #38291

    Jakob A
    Participant

    With that type of motor usually its either a loose magnet (you can usually feel that) or a bad bearing, which would be my guess. Those motors aren’t built for milling 🙂

    If you are in europe I can recommend the Kress 800 or 1050, but it’s a bit above the 150$ I think.

    and yes.. 0.2 mm is pretty low 🙂

    #38292

    Omri
    Participant

    Thanks Jakob!
    By the way, do you know of any active members in Amsterdam or Holland? Would maybe be helpful to meet someone that can help
    O

    #38300

    Omri
    Participant

    Hey guys!
    Any thought about this drill?
    https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/3706
    Is that the right direction?
    This one is in budget and avaliable in Amsterdam

    #38308

    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    It’s like a blue dw660 🙂 Yeah that one looks great everything about it is identical unless I am missing something. 1/4″ and 1/8″ collets. I can’t find a mount for it on thingiverse. The mounts for makita are all for the bigger sized router.

    #38310

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    We’ll help you figure out how to wire any new motor or router if you tell us how you generate that gcode. Your work is amazing! How much of that line art is made with the CNC machine?

    I’ll actually help even if you don’t share…

    So the options above are:
    1) Replace the hobby motor with another one. This won’t be great, because it’s underpowered, and it will fail again soon. But most of them will mount in the same holes, and connect to the same speed controllers, but finding the right speed of motor is going to be key, unfortunately.
    2) Replace it with a trim router or larger router. This will give you plenty of power, and as long as you don’t fill it with clay, should be very durable long term. Some will have integrated speed controllers, otherwise, you might find a router speed controller at a hardware store. There are some here that you plug the router into, and it has a knob to adjust the speed. After a ton of routing, you’ll probably just have to replace the brushes to get another ton of routing out of it.
    3) Replace it with an ebay/chinese motor and power supply. You’ll have to find a mount again, that you can match up with your CNC. Many of them have wired up to them a speed controller. This might be on the higher cost side. I get the impression they will be more sensitive to dirt than option 2).

    The hardest part is going to be finding a mount. It’s going to be very tough to get someone who’s not touching the router to design a mount for it. If you can find a part on thingiverse (I think you have the 525 version of the MPCNC, but an overview pic of the machine and we can tell), then that’s your best bet.

    #38316

    Omri
    Participant

    Hey Jeff! Thanks

    First of all I aim for the makita since all tool bits I have are 1/8 inch already so would fit directly in the more sturdy machine.
    If I can’t find an existing mount anywhere online I might ask someone to design it for me.

    It’s 100% cnc drawing, it’s my concept to not use my hands at all in the drawing process, the methods and algorithms are very different and it’s over 7 month of research but besides algorithms I develop directly with some crazy scientists here are some you can try yourself (some free some less)
    Drawbot by:
    http://www.dullbits.com/

    And:
    http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/entry/zebratrace-0-5

    Now most of the drawings you’ve seen are with other and more or less complex methods, but it’s an extremely slow learning curve with cnc and drawing so thats some places to start 🙂

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #38338

    Steve
    Participant

    I did find that the barrel size on the 3706 is 2 1/4″ if that helps find a mount.

    #38450

    Omri
    Participant

    Hey guys, so i got my funding for that makita drill.
    is there anyway to get a mount done ? i can 3D scan the drill if it helps, or pay a bit to someone who can design it.
    or is there a way to mount without a 3D printed part ?
    at the moment my 2 metal pipes on the Z axis have 1 scre hole each

    #38478

    Omri
    Participant

    SO! I just realized right near my house i have a crazy metal workshop that makes all kind of metal and aluminium parts with their own cnc machines.
    so i can probably get them to make me a custom made aluminium mount for my makita.

    But my other question is, currently the 2 pipes on my z axis have have one screw hole each, what is the easiest way to add another hole to them ? im just assuming that with 4 holes it will hold much better (plate with 4 holes with mount welded onto it is my idea for now)

    any thoughts ?
    im adding some examples for my general idea

    what do you think ?

    #38482

    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    Do you have the new 525 style? When did you make the machine? The current version has a big tool mount for the z axis, with plenty of mounting holes. That current mount is way undersized.

    #38483

    Omri
    Participant

    Hey Kevin, the machine was made around 8 month ago, I will make better photos of the overall machine and the zaxis closeup once I’m in my studio, hoping to find a way soon to mount the makita and cnc at more then 0.2mm per pass 😀

    My idea is to take off that existing mount and just make a complete new one attached directly to the z axis pipe, machine is not near me so maybe I’m being over positive with the simplicity of making it.

    #38484

    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    Comparison of both middle assemblies. Ignore the rollers, both are the older style. The right picture is the new one, as you can see it has the big tool mount that is far superior. If you do have cnc machines near by, you can probably whip up a quick mount. It cant be that sophisticated though like our 3d printed ones, unless you want to spend a fortune. I guarantee with the new router setup, you will be doing much more than .2mm 🙂

    #38496

    Omri
    Participant

    Probably a crime I’m even putting such mcgiver solution between all you handy people, but will this work as a temporary solution in your opinion?

    httpsps://youtu.be/mmIIi_3q_Ok}

    #38508

    Kevin Lopez
    Participant

    Thats what I call a “ghetto solution” It should hold strong enough, but for long term use I would go with a proper mount system. That is also a little hard to square up, but you can add washers like the video describes.

    #38509

    Jeffeb3
    Participant

    Those are some good tips for manually attaching the router. They involve a lot of craftsmanship though. After you mount all of that to a board, you’d need to mount securely to the z pipes, without interfering with the z screw.

    After all that’s done, you need to make sure it’s strong, secure, not going to loosen, and perpendicular to the spoil board. Otherwise, you’ll be severely limited in depth.

    #38749

    Omri
    Participant

    hey again guys ! so i got the makita, wich makes the old motor look like a sad duck next to it, used it manutally a bit and it cuts like knife through butter.

    I also spoke to the aluminum cnc guys next door and they are happy to help me make the piece, now all i need is an stl file, i figured out from the existing mount, that as long as the back of the mount is similar i should be free from hitting any bolts or screws going up and down the z axis, the makita seems to fit well when its +-3cm away from the z pipes
    im adding some extra photos, if you guys have any good ideas please share 😀

    O

    #38755

    Barry
    Participant

    Are your Z axis motor mounts plywood???

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